JJ: In today's episode, we invite you to bring your iced coffee or your tumbler with your preferred drink.

Megan: Yes, we're talking with Caitlin Wehniainen, who went viral on social media when she talked about Gen Z bringing their lattes to interviews.

Matty: We break it down and she's just so lovely. It was just a great conversation. I think people are really gonna enjoy it.

Unconfirmed speaker: Yeah.

JJ: Season two, episode 74.

Theme: Enjoy. You laugh, you cringe, you'll beg for more with a guilty pleasure you can't ignore. Like a drunk text sent at 2 a.m. And we slip it in again.

Megan: Welcome, welcome, welcome, everyone. We're back slipping it in with you, bringing you the unhinged brunch conversation that you can't stop listening to, even though it seems to be about, well, sometimes nothing and everything all at the same time. I'm Megan, and I'm here with Matty and JJ. Hello, boys. We are up uh north having a little weekend retreat with the fall colors. So you'll see we have a little more of a cabin vibe around us. On the Osabo. Yes. Did I say it right? Osable. Osabo.

Matty: Osabo. I always get that wrong.

Megan: And we have a very special guest with us today that we're so excited about. We have Caitlin Wehniainen. And if you remember, Slippers, a few episodes ago, we talked about how Caitlin, also known as Caitlin Recruiter on social media, she went viral with her post about Gen Z bringing coffee to the interview. So we commented on that and she commented back on our social media, and we invited her on the pod, and here she is. So welcome, Caitlin. We're so excited.

Caitlin: Thank you so much.

JJ: Yeah. That was a big hot topic. I would say that. And it went all over the place.

Matty: It was crazy. Wasn't it crazy? It was. I it was everywhere you turned around. I feel like it was on the telly, it was on the socials, it was on the SiriusXM. It was everywhere. It was just so crazy. In fact, if I might, and I mean, props to you. I mean, I'm gonna put all this into a little bit of perspective for anyone that was living under a rock. Okay. So you go and post this video and seemingly offering some straightforward career advice about bringing iced lattes to a job interview. Suddenly, the entire world seems to have an opinion, which we love because we have our opinions here. Always. We're I mean, literally talking hundreds of thousands of views on social media TikTok, X, Threads, Instagram.

Matty: Then the media gets involved, right? And correct me if I get any of this wrong, but we're talking People magazine, NBC, NPR, the Washington Post, Fortune, Bloomberg, Business Insider, Fox News goes international. We've got the BBC, the Financial Times, we've got outlets in Australia, Ireland, and India. This people is not just a people article, it's an exclusive interview. Yeah. And now, Caitlin, after all of that international exposure, you have reached the pinnacle. By coming on Slip It In Podcast, congratulations. It officially is gonna go all downhill from here. But you made it to the seriously, when did you first realize that this seemingly simple, I mean, this is what you do for a living, you're posting actively.

Matty: But when did you see that this is turned into something more than your average post in this international conversation that happened?

Caitlin: Less than 24 hours after I posted it, to be honest, because I was seeing the comments climb. And it wasn't even so much the views, like the views were climbing, but the comments and how this wave was happening of people agreeing, people disagreeing, people just commenting as a comment, and everybody weighing in, that was crazy. Like that was yeah, wild.

Matty: I just I'm trying to imagine that scenario for myself, and just like all of a sudden, like what do I do in this situation? Because you like it's the first for you, right? Like right, like you're probably thinking, well, how do I well, how do I insert myself back into the conversation? Yeah, how do I, I don't know, leverage this professionally, but enjoy the ride personally, all of those things.

Caitlin: Yeah, it's it's funny because the way that I would describe it, and I haven't seen any influencer or content creator out there saying this, but it's disorienting. And it's disorienting in a very strange way where this whole narrative is happening and suddenly it's not even about you anymore, but your face is on it in a lot of ways. And and the I said in many interviews that the conversation grew legs and kind of ran out into different directions. And it's like now the message is not really my original message, it's taken all these different forms, and I need to be okay now as the person who started the conversation to just watch what's happening and not feel like I need to control or focus on anything.

Caitlin: Like now it's just has its own thing in the world, and now I'm just watching as a normal person would when you're looking at pop culture news, you know. So, like it was just a disorienting, very strange feeling. And I think before people create content or like expect to go viral, just like to think about that very disorienting thing, seeing your face and words out there in the world and the misinterpretation of it and just not even owning it. Exactly. Exactly.

JJ: So I have two questions for you, Caitlin. Then I the first one is are you an iced coffee person? And the second one is like, if we were to be in a person, what would your coffee order be? If you were here with us, too. Yeah, if you were here with us.

Caitlin: Okay, well, you guys sound like you're in a very autumn-y type of area. So I'd definitely get a nice pumpkin spice latte. Like for sure, that's what I would get. Um, but I'm normally just like a coffee and cream kind of girl. Oh, okay.

Matty: Do you want to? Um, you mentioned I picked up on you saying like the conversation maybe has taken on its own life in a way that maybe wasn't your original intent for our listeners. Do you want to ground us in what your original intent of that was? Because it really is not about necessarily bringing a latte to an interview, right?

Caitlin: Right. And I so I what I realized after time is that everyone reads the internet through their own lens of their own experience, right? And so the way that I was speaking was about a very specific niche of individuals going into a very specific type of job interview and very buttoned up, very corporate, like I had mentioned in my post. And the average person is not interviewing for that kind of job. There are many people interviewing for all kinds of jobs. And so to see that kind of message and maybe think, oh, I'm doing something totally different. That why would it be a big deal to bring an iced coffee? That then made sense to me. Like, you're not necessarily the recipient of the way that the

Caitlin: message was supposed to be received, but you're receiving it anyway, and that's interesting to hear your perspective on it. Like, if that makes sense. Yeah. I don't even know if I'm specifically answering what you're asking, but like yeah.

Matty: We had a lot of conversations just amongst ourselves about what could, you know, like authentically be us, but could also make or break the interview. And what do you, I don't know, what do you prioritize?

Caitlin: Yeah, I mean, at the like it's a job interview, and I think you're just really answering the questions that they're giving you. But at the same time, every single job description has a list of soft skills that is needed for that job. So that was the other thing that I thought was so interesting about the opinions and people weighing in. It's what I do is so specific, right? I'm finding the right qualified person for the right job. Um, but if you break down a job description and you look at how does this person communicate? How does this person manage multiple high urgency priorities? Like all of these things are typically listed in a job description. And it's up to you to present yourself armed with situations

Caitlin: in your working experience that show that you're able to handle that and that you possess those qualities. And so you have to figure out what that looks like for the job. And that's the cool position that I have as a recruiter because I get to kind of tell my candidates without giving all the answers, like a kind of a layup in the job search process and the interview process, because it's like, look, here's how you should be presenting yourself. And I get to know my candidates. So I know them personally by the time they go to that on-site interview with my client, like I know them well. And so there's just never a question. But yeah, I mean, you have to be yourself at the end of the

Caitlin: day, but you have to also know what they want because you have to show that you add value in those areas.

JJ: I mean, you mentioned that um, I mean, uh, this old, you know, hot topic of iced coffee or not iced coffee went all viral. But I think that you are in the business of people uh in that event that really tells you how really you struck a nerve on that to every individual that have probably thought about not just the iced coffee aspect of it, but the questioning of like, am I doing it right? Like, I'm am I missing something?

Matty: Yeah. Megan, maybe I'll invite you into this because you brought it up. There's the whole thing about the skill set. Yes, and what you bring nowadays, sometimes there's not even an in-person interview. But there was a day, an age, a lot of it pre-COVID, where a lot of it was face to face. And we were having this discussion about the I don't know if they're intangibles, but they're things that you maybe could did you wear? What did you say? What did you drink? Like I've been at my job for 12 years. In that 12 years, I've since gotten a tattoo that could be visible or may not need to be visible. Do I wave that tattoo flag or do I cover it? I love it. It's on my forearm. So I could roll up the sleeve, I could pull the sleeve down.

Matty: Megan, you were saying just in like your suit in the world of attorneys.

Megan: Yes, because I'm a lawyer. So all of my interviews, for the most part, have been in the legal world. And they're a lot of times you have candidates that have a very similar background. So you kind of can assume by some of their past roles, if they've been at places a long time, certain law firms, they probably have the exact experience you need them to have. They can do the job, but then it becomes more of who do you vibe with better? Who are you going to want to work closely with, be stuck in the office late, um, have the conversations, you know, about other coworkers, issues going on. So I think lots of times it becomes a little bit more about a vibe with a person sometimes than critical skills. Yes. Yes.

Caitlin: Yes. And it's it definitely takes its forms, right? Because I do a lot of staffing, which is temp recruiting, and then I do a lot of full-time permanent placement. And, you know, there's a lot of maybe there's a reason why the position is open that I'm paying attention to that I want to know because I'm kind of vetting that in, you know, candidates, or there's just so much that there is to the actual job of knowing and understanding an environment and knowing and understanding the candidate. Because the the worst thing in the world is if and when I don't get a placement right.

Unconfirmed speaker: Yes.

Caitlin: Because, and it doesn't really happen often. Like in my 16-year history, I have people who have been with their job for 16 years. Wow, that's amazing. Congratulations. And that's thank you. I really do feel like I made a marriage happen.

Megan: But one of my former jobs, we used a lot of recruiters. I was general counsel for a uh real estate company. We owned a lot of property, we had multifamily property. So we used some recruiters to fill a lot of those roles. And then we also used some recruiters to fill some of our higher end roles. And we had a couple of situations where we had some very high-level placements that then didn't work out. And our COO was like, well, the recruiter's gonna have to find a replacement for free. So it is, you want it's critical that I think you want to get the right person in the right jobs for so that you aren't on the hook and having to keep working essentially for free. Exactly.

Caitlin: And you don't you don't want people to like think that this is going to be an incredible thing and then for it to just be like devastating for them because a job takes on a lot of our life. And I'm very sensitive to that. So I want people to be where they are happy and their quality of overall life by taking this job that I'm offering is better from you know, having taken the job and met me. And that's what I've built my reputation on.

Matty: This just popped in my head. Have you ever developed any friendships out of this? Like, or do you kind of keep it like once they're placed? Does that relationship with them end, or do you maintain it for a while?

Caitlin: So many. So many, so many friendships, like so many people that I've just known now for so long. And it's just that like genuine care. And yeah, I mean, we'll go out and get drinks or or go out and get food together, like all the time, happy hours, all kinds of stuff. So yeah, it's like it becomes part of your social life, I guess, too.

Unconfirmed speaker: Yeah.

JJ: I have a question that I just piqued my curiosity here? Like, how does really knowing somebody at that company really helps somebody getting into the job? You know, that's whole like referral, not referral um type of thing. Do you think that that really influences somebody potentially getting the job if you actually know somebody that actually refer you to get in this position?

Caitlin: Yes. Absolutely. Referrals are great.

Matty: It seems so hard to stand out amongst all the job applicants. I don't know, maybe it's just me and I've not been in the job market for a while. But I mean, it seems like you bring a lot of opportunity to someone in in a way that could like a referral, like JJ says, or a recruiter. I don't know that everyone even understands how the recruitment industry works.

Caitlin: Yeah, that's another thing from iced coffee. I don't think that people understand that my job is kind of at the front of the process and then obviously at the back end too, to like do offer negotiation on behalf of my candidates. But I am at the front end evaluating people, and I evaluate hundreds per position so that my clients don't have to evaluate hundreds because frankly, they're double triple booked. These are VPs and C levels. They don't have the time. And so I'm doing that for them.

Matty: And yeah, I mean, what about AI and all of this? When you say you're doing that, I mean, it's it's it, it's I love hearing that there's a person that is scanning hundreds of applicants. Because I think there's this opinion that AI is doing all of that.

Caitlin: So AI is doing it on a lot of job applications. So I guess this is another nuance to the recruitment industry that is interesting, but I don't post every single job that I have open. I actually only post a very small percentage of them. They exist on my website per se and on our organization's LinkedIn so that our recruiters can go in and look through, but that's not like our first way of getting candidates. We actually are extremely referral-driven. We are all over LinkedIn all the time creating connections. And a lot of the times we're like sort of headhunting for the specific candidate skill set because that's where we come into play. Like if it's kind of um a job where there's a very heavy amount

Caitlin: of candidates, our client can probably find that on their own and doesn't necessarily need us, but they need us for when it's very niche, very particular. And we do a lot of tech and engineering recruiting. So there are specific skill sets that are needed within that position, you know.

Megan: So yeah. And we should say, I don't know that I said it earlier, your company is On Cue Hire. So if anyone's looking for a recruiter, I'm assuming do you work nationally?

Caitlin: All over, yes, nationally. So we have teams kind of up and down the east coast for the most part, but we recruit as far as California.

JJ: I don't know about you guys, but I I sometimes get uh I have a love-hey relationship with referring somebody because I don't know, like I'm conflicted, Caitlin. Maybe you can help me with this because I if you put your name, like I've been in my company more for more than 10 years, and if you put your name and uh backing up somebody that you know, if they do well, then you get very excited about it, and you're like, Yeah, I did that, and this is like this is why we bringing in this person, but if they do bad, it's it's tough. I don't know. Like it's just like like you, you're like, Oh, yeah, I refer that person that did not do the job, and I know the person, and and also you have a relationship with this person outside

JJ: of that job that didn't do and perform. Do you have any like advice on that? Like, I don't know. Like, I again I sounds like you've been burned. I'm conflicted.

Megan: Sounds like I mean, yeah, just refer good people, just for for good people.

JJ: Yeah, it's JJ.

Megan: Yeah, what kind of people are you referring to?

JJ: I mean, it's not just I mean, sometimes you think that they could, you know, do perform the job, and and and depending on what level that is, you think you know what, you you can be a good candidate. Maybe you on paper, because sometimes on paper they are good, or in friendship, they're good friendship, but they might not be suited for the role.

Matty: So here, let me solve this problem for you. For who? JJ?

Megan: Yeah, if there's a referral fee, just refer them. Oh collect your money. Yeah, collect your money, make them stay six months. I think it's as simple to say I know them, I don't know them well, or I worked with them previously, they were great to work with, or I've never worked with them, I just know them socially because that gives you the out if they're bad, but then you still get your referral fee. They only have to last whatever your company's time frame is.

Matty: Just refer good people, JJ. What have you do you have any doozy of a story of like maybe without naming names? Just like something that happened, um, like somebody watched somebody, you have so many.

Caitlin: I'm gonna be tired of it. I have so many doozies. I mean, I have worked with like thousands and thousands and thousands of people. So, and I think when you're in the people business, you're you're going to get surprised. People will surprise you and you'll think you kind of have everything figured out, but we're people, like we're all human. Um I have oh, it's so hard without without like naming names. I mean, I've had people show up completely different to how they were originally like a week later, and I have had people show up like send somebody else to fake the interview. It happens in the tech industry.

Megan: Yes, we've been hearing that with some of our friends who are who are internal recruiters for companies that they've had several situations where the hiring manager person after the person starts comes to them and says, This is not the person I interview. That's which is crazy to me. Yeah.

Caitlin: Yes, and this has been happening for like a decade. This is yeah. Yes, it's catfishing. Yes.

Matty: So if you haven't heard, we have baby, baby kitten, catfishing. Yes.

Megan: We talked about like catfishing when you're completely someone different than who you are, or you're a woman saying you're a man, or you're pretending to be a celebrity, or you're completely different. But then there's kittenfishing.

JJ: kittenfishing.

Megan: That is just um new term.

JJ: It's a new term.

Megan: Yeah, it's a new term that they're using a lot in like the dating world.

Matty: Well, on your resume, it could be like I'm proficient in this when in fact you've logged into that platform once or something. But like, you know, I'm kittenfishing. Like, I'm I can do a little bit of Excel.

Megan: Yeah, exactly. And then we created our own term, baby kitten, which means it's like what I think everyone does in their daily lives. You're always trying to put your best foot forward. Just yeah, a little right. You know, not, you know, you're maybe I'm amazing at doing pickleball. Playing pickleball. And I've only played once. But I got really well.

Matty: It's not hurting anyone for her. It's not hurting anyone for her to say she's great at pickleball, except for those of us that are playing against her. But feel free to use it.

JJ: Feel free to use a baby kitten, baby kitten or kittenfishing. Yeah.

Megan: I always wonder for interviews coming from the legal world. I always wear a suit. Um, but I have had some recent interviews where they had told me, go ahead and dress business casual or casual. And even when they said casual, I still did business casual. But I always think in my world, I look at it negatively if someone comes and they're not in a suit. Um, but that's I think legal is a little more, you know, corporate, maybe a little more stuffy, a little more old school. It's slowly changing. But I wonder in like other jobs, what is kind of the appropriate, maybe in the tech world or engineering world, what is your appropriate attire for an interview? Because I feel like it can really make or break it. Right.

Caitlin: I think it depends on the environment. Like I have clients who just tell me flat out that suit's not gonna really work in our office. Just tell them to wear a polo and slacks, or tell females to please don't feel like they need to wear heels because they'll be walking the office. We want to introduce them to people, we want them to be comfortable. And so I tell people based on what feedback that I get from my client of how they should dress for the interview and then for the job when they first start. And then also, like, I have people who are working who are like, I'm gonna take 30 to 45 minutes out of my day to run to the interview. I don't have time to change. Where am I gonna change?

Caitlin: In my office, bathroom, and then walk out in a in an exact full suit. Yeah. So like I'll give my client a heads up. Hey, this person's coming straight from work, they're gonna be in business casual, what they what they wear to work, and just heads up, no suit. Yeah, you have to be okay with that. And it's like no problem as long as they're taking the time to meet. I'm so thankful, you know? Yeah, it's like that communication goes a long way.

Matty: And it gives you a leg up right there. Just because like that's half of it is like, oh gosh, what choices do I make? If somebody could just tell me going into it, because I work for uh like a creative firm, and 12 years ago, I I was of the mindset, regardless of the job you're interviewing for, you respect the process and you do a suit and tie. Now, this was 12 years ago pre-COVID, so I don't necessarily have that same opinion now. I ended up getting hired, but as I then met the staff and they were talking, they're like, when you came in in that full suit, our our feedback to the manager was like, No, we cannot bring a stuffed suit guy into this atmosphere, and they're like, and

Matty: you're nothing like that, but we and you checked the all the other boxes, so you did get hired, and thank God they're all like, Thank God you got hired because we love you. But I I could have very easily lost that.

JJ: The cover of the book did not match the content, like yes, I did it.

Matty: No, I was I was baby kitten. Yeah, I was I was presenting something that was like I had that in my closet for something that I thought the process deserved and it really wasn't needed.

Megan: Well, you you want to respect the process.

JJ: Caitlin, I have a question. Do you feel that sometimes you are more than a recruiter? You're like a coach, you're a stylist, you're a therapist, you're cheering on this individual so that you get to meet because you you know your client, but you also get you're getting to know this individual that you see great potential. And sometimes, you know, and I'm speaking for myself, like English is my second language, and sometimes I just struggle with you know imposter syndrome and like trying to, you know, boost myself up on in situations like that. But do you find yourself when the more you get to know this individuals to put hats on of like coach and stylist and like uh therapist and and trying to motivate them a little bit more?

Caitlin: Yeah, definitely. It it comes really naturally to me. I don't know. I think recruiting as a career has a very high uh drop-off rate. Like I it's just an all-encompassing job, you know, it's not a nine to five, it doesn't end. You really are like even on weekends, on my friends always laugh. I've never taken a vacation. Like, you know, my my husband can relate because he's an entrepreneur as well. But um, you know, you never are off, you're always kind of attending to something. And I I love people, I love to learn about people. I am a journalism background, and so it just is like it's what I was made to do.

Matty: You're very engaging. Like, I mean, you thank you. It feels like I mean, I I can only speak for myself, but it feels like we have known each other for a while. Yeah, yeah, and so you, yeah, there's you you have the the gravitas for you're hired.

Unconfirmed speaker: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Matty: Yeah, you're hired or are you fired? That is a perfect segue. So thank you for enlightening. I mean, I think we could talk more about all of it. It is it's really interesting field, and uh the social dynamics at play make it a hot topic. Yes. I we talked about doing a segment with you called Hired or Fired. We wanted to pull it out of the recruitment world, though. So we have a couple questions for you that I think will drive some conversation and heated debate amongst the four of us. So let's say you're throwing a party, you're hosting a party, and one of your friends shows up at your party 45 minutes early. Hired or fired?

Caitlin: Hired if they're helping me set up. Oh, yes. Um, no, if they're just gonna sit on my couch now.

JJ: Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, 45 minutes is too much. If it's like five to ten minutes, I'd totally fine. Especially if it's a friend that is coming that early. Probably if it's if it were to be you, Matty, or me again, you could serve yourself. Like, do you know how to handle my house, go to the fridge and do your thing while I'm pre prepping. But 45 minutes is too much.

Matty: 45 minutes is too much, and I feel at that point I could you could catch me in the shower.

Megan: Like well, I think it's really appropriate. The appropriate start time for any party is 15 minutes after the start time on the invite, which is kind of about the time you arrived to today's podcast. Well, I was here, I was in the room. So that drags. I was just getting things put together.

JJ: Sorry, sorry. Caitlin, just a thought here. So bringing recruiting, I cannot help it. Oh, like go back to a how early can you arrive at to an interview?

Megan: Yeah, that's a great question.

Caitlin: I think 15 minutes is perfect.

JJ: 15.

Caitlin: I mean as early as five to 15.

JJ: And how late is too late.

Caitlin: Um 15 minutes.

JJ: Okay, 15 up front, 15 on the back.

Matty: Wow.

Megan: Yes. I always wait in my car until five minutes before the start time and then go in.

Matty: Yeah.

Megan: So I never go in earlier than like five minutes before.

Matty: But it's also good to your point to get there early, in my opinion, and sit there so you don't like the thing you can't control, like traffic or weather or makeup and concealer.

Megan: Well, and also, and I will say this, like Caitlin, you talked about how you would tell sometimes your candidates that they were coming from their job, and you would tell the people you're recruiting for the company that they're going to be dressed in business casual or however they dress at work. I have changed so many times in my car for interviews. I hop in my car, switch a couple of things, and I'm out in a full suit. That's good. That's really good.

Matty: I am surprised, Caitlin, that you're uh okay with 15 minutes late. I guess.

Megan: Well, she didn't say she was okay with it. She just said, like, but he allows it. Don't not go to the interview.

Matty: Sure.

Megan: Tell your recruiter.

Unconfirmed speaker: Yeah.

Caitlin: Because I'm like texting the hiring leader, but it's like, okay, listen, they're they're a little late or they ran into something, they'll be there.

Unconfirmed speaker: True.

Caitlin: And it's still like not the dust look. But it's I I I am. I like really fight for my people, especially like if I know that they're just gonna be rock stars. And and they always really are. That's why I'm saying I have a very low uh like rate of not having success where people are placed. But um that's great. Yeah, so it's yeah, it's good.

Matty: Okay, well, I picked up on the fact that you're married. You referred, you said husband. So I have a dating question, so maybe we'll put your husband on the spot.

JJ: Hired or fired.

Matty: If your now husband had shown up on the first date you all went on, if you can remember back to that date, the bill comes and he pulls out a coupon. Hired, hired or fired? No, no fired.

Caitlin: No gift.

Matty: What about a gift card?

Caitlin: Yeah, gift card.

Matty: What about a gift card?

Caitlin: Save it for another day.

Matty: I think this could go viral. I we should ask our slippers hired or fired, married or divorced, second date or no date, if they bring a coupon. My dad loves a coupon.

Caitlin: I've had these conversations with friends actually, like, you know, back when we were in our 20s dating, and this kind of stuff does happen, and just don't, you know.

Matty: Well, what if he had a coupon? You wouldn't be with him now. And yeah.

Caitlin: No, I mean my husband's like extremely financially savvy. It's very, very smart. He's like a spreadsheeter, he's brilliant. Um, but I would it like, even though I I know that he's smart with money, it if it now, no, you like treat your lady, you know, like your lady, your guy, whoever you're going out with, just get a nice I'm out on a coup as well.

Matty: A coup comes out on a date I'm out. No.

Megan: No, no, but at what point does it when you're already dating? I feel like you're in a dating, like monogamous relationship.

JJ: Yeah, if you're exclusive as dating, I would say, hey Caitlin, have a gift card or have a coupon for like ten dollars off.

Matty: Yeah. If you say we're exclusive, you can say we're exclusive and therefore coupons are now allowed. Coupons are available. Coupons are allowed. Yep, okay. Good to know. You can pass gas in front of me. You can pass gas in front of me and you can coupon clip.

Unconfirmed speaker: No, that's a no. Okay.

Caitlin: Coupons. Even coupon clipping, it's like, okay, ten dollars. I will I will like would rather pay somebody ten dollars not to use the coupon. To use the coupon and like, come on.

Matty: Really? Okay. Yeah. All right. It's not worth it.

Caitlin: I mean, is it like a $50 coupon that maybe like it makes more sense? Oh, is that your threshold? That's that's specific. That's my that's where my brain is going with this. Like, where is the point that it makes sense? You don't want to lose that eat that person over like 10 bucks. It's like not even a two Starbucks today.

JJ: You know, you're kind of in an interview. Like you are sitting trying to get to know each other, and like either it's either going to move forward with it or not. Like, it's a coupon kind of feels like a referral.

Matty: Like that company that company loves me so much, they gave me a coupon. No, it's not a referral. They referred me to come to their restaurant and use this.

JJ: Caitlin, we need to stop this. Coupons know.

Megan: Coupons should not be involved in any dating.

JJ: Okay.

Megan: Early on.

Matty: What about a 10% for what? For what? For what? What? So you can save $2?

Megan: If you want to date me, you've got to pay full price. No.

Matty: In more ways than one. We are just talking money. All right. You're a catch. You're a catch. You're a dream.

Unconfirmed speaker: You're a dream.

Matty: Well, Megan's in a relationship, us two are singles, so that tells you you're doing something right. Exactly. I'm gonna stop clipping. All right, my coops. Okay, so sounds like you do a lot of texting with your um your candidates. This is around texting, but again, not necessarily work-related. But you send somebody a text message, and instead of texting you back, they call you. Like, so this is like a friend or a family member.

JJ: Is a call.

Matty: So like I text Megan, you know, what are you doing today? And two seconds later, my phone is ringing.

JJ: That sounds like a Megan movement.

Matty: It is. That means she's on the move, she's in the car, she's she's traveling. I know that happens. Exactly. But what would you do, Caitlin?

Caitlin: Like, are you Yeah, I think it's fine. I would pick up the phone.

JJ: You would yeah, yeah, I don't even what about a FaceTime?

Megan: Oh no, no, exactly. The face timing is out of control.

Matty: I wish they'd just phase out telephone communications. Oh my god. I hate it. I hate talking about it.

JJ: The thing is that if they call you and you do not pick up, they know that you just texted them. So you have the responsibility of that's annoying.

Matty: My sister gets me with that. If she engages with me in a text, she's got me on the line. And then it's like, well, she knows I can't not pick up. Sorry, Stace. She's she's a big listener.

Megan: Well, I will say, from my point of view, if there's something kind of complicated, it's faster sometimes to just do the phone call rather than text back and forth. If I am out and about, I want to do a call because I'm in my car, I'm traveling.

JJ: You don't want to text and drive.

Megan: And I don't, exactly.

JJ: So that's why.

Megan: If I'm just sitting on my couch and you're texting me, I'm gonna text back. But if it's a complicated subject topic, it's just faster and easier to do over phone, you're gonna get a call. So I love that text because then I know they're available in free. So I do take those opportunities.

Matty: That's why sometimes I'm like, I might, I might not text right back because I'm like, I think they might call me if I do.

Caitlin: About voice notes. Do you get the voice notes from people?

Matty: JJ, you can speak to this, don't you? Get that from your nephew?

JJ: I do get voice notes for my nephew, which are cute. What I don't like, what I don't like it's like an adult nephew, though.

Megan: Yeah. Oh, it's not your little nephew.

JJ: It is my little nephew.

Matty: That's cute. That's cute. I'm not a monster.

JJ: My family is out of this country, so they we use WhatsApp a lot, and the WhatsApp app, there is that voice option of that. I what I don't like is the voice to text because Matty, you are also used.

Megan: I've never used it. You guys think I use it. It's just the auto-correct is out of control on my phone.

Matty: I do use it.

JJ: I use a what do you but I do like a voice note if it's like a cute little voice note.

Matty: Do you like it? You brought it up. Are you uh fan of it?

Caitlin: Oh, I just I I like can't find the time to listen. Like when I get the voice note and then I sit on it for so long and I'm like, oh yeah, that voice note, and then I'm like going back to listen. But I'd prefer just like a text or a call.

JJ: Yeah. I mean, I do I do agree with that. Like if if you're doing a voice note, why not call? Right, why you're doing the same thing.

Matty: Yeah. I don't know. That whole the communication is tricky, I think. And it's it's different when when you're talking about friends versus family versus sig others, or like someone you're dating, like the etiquette. I don't know where I I don't think I I don't think I do well with it. I think I get it wrong.

Megan: Well, I do think we better ask Caitlin about her favorite nuts. We forgot to ask you earlier in the episode that we have a thing that we ask all our guests their three favorite nuts. So um what are your three favorite nuts?

Caitlin: Cashews are great. Yeah, um, this is like literal nuts, right? Yes. Well, we had cashews are amazing. Um you know, almonds are amazing, especially like ones with a little flavor, like cinnamon almonds. So good. Have you tried the wasabi? Oh, I love what you're doing. Oh, yeah. Like anything that might make you cry a little bit, but in a good way and clear out the sinuses. Yeah, love that.

Matty: Love it. Love that. Love that we have that in common. A third nut.

Caitlin: Oh. I mean, I guess you gotta say walnuts, right? They're really good in salads, they're just good in general, they're good for your hair.

Megan: Yeah, we've been getting a lot more walnut lovers. Anderson Cooper told us he is not a fan of walnuts.

JJ: He's not.

Megan: No.

JJ: He does like a cashew.

Megan: Yes. So you've got that with Anderson Cooper.

Matty: Would you eat a walnut though, like a handful of walnuts? Because that's your you said they're good on salads. So that is a game changer for me. There's some nuts that do like a pine nut, for example. I like it in my hummus or with chicken or on salads, but I'm not gonna grab a handful like I would a cashew.

Caitlin: Good point.

Matty: Yeah. Good point. I mean, you can keep your walnut.

Caitlin: Good point. I mean, I would I would just eat some, but I will be honest, I'm like macros counting and kind of crazy. I had multiple babies in a short amount of time and like three babies in three and a half years.

Unconfirmed speaker: Wow.

Caitlin: And so I am super healthy. So if I need those fats, I'm definitely going to my nuts.

Megan: Well, then you'll yep, the walnuts are right up your alley.

Unconfirmed speaker: Perfect.

JJ: Well, it's time for some slip it ins and pull it outs. Slip it ins, the things that we are obsessed with, that we cannot stop talking about them, that pull it out. It's things that we really can live without them. Um, and I'm gonna start.

Unconfirmed speaker: Okay.

JJ: My slip it in is like as we were coming up north, um, I think that this is like one of my first times uh like up north Michigan with seeing like the fall colors. Um, Caitlin, I don't know how much you can actually see that in Florida, but in here in Michigan, it's like so beautiful. And I think Matty was the one that texted me and's like, should we go like earlier and get on the road earlier so that we can actually see the colors? And we it it was so beautiful. Like I I love fall weather. I mean, I do love me a Michigan summer, but a fall in Michigan, there is really nothing like it. There really is. Um it was so beautiful coming up.

Matty: Have you ever been to Michigan, Caitlin?

Caitlin: One time, I feel like I was there for a wedding or something, but it was so long ago, and I definitely didn't get to experience Michigan.

Matty: Yeah, the Great Lakes, like Traverse City, and um Detroit has just had a renaissance. It's just it's beautiful. You should come. You should come to the studio sometimes.

Caitlin: Yes, yeah, the people are so nice. Like, I I was actually with uh lady from Michigan this morning at like this mommy and me thing, and she was incredible. And I was like, why are people from Michigan so nice? She's like, We're Midwestern, we're just the nicest people. I'm like, You really are like, let's hang out.

JJ: Yes, let's hang out, yes. Um, my pull it out is as I was going through the pictures I took from the colors and from our drive up north, like the amount of nonsense pictures that we all take.

Matty: Oh, nonsense pictures? Pictures, like I'm like accidentally, no, like on purpose.

JJ: And I'm like, okay for what? I'm cannot do this. Like when we travel, we we constantly it's like we take a thousand pictures, we only post 20 because Instagram only allows 20, so we pick our favorites of the 20. Yeah, so what did we do with the the the rest of the 1500? And I had like probably like 50 pictures of the same trees with the same colors.

Matty: I know. I saw you clicking them through the windshield.

Megan: I'm like, Oh my god.

Matty: Well, I just said to someone the other day, now what are you gonna do with this picture?

JJ: Nothing. Put them on the trash can.

Matty: You weren't gonna later on an airplane and have nothing to do. You're gonna go through your whole phone thing and be like, delete, delete, delete. What did I love about that bush? What did I okay? Yeah.

JJ: No, I'm with you. So that is a blowout. Okay. That's hilarious.

Megan: I'll go next. So my slip it in, I'm gonna take it um a little more in the job interviewing realm in honor of Caitlin today. So my slip it in is when you walk in or you get the email that you're going to a multi-person interview. I love a panel interview. Oh I love it so much more than one-on-one. I feel like one-on-one can be a little more awkward. There can be awkward silences. I feel like I have to keep talking, or if the interviewer isn't a good interviewer, I feel obligated to sort of take control of the interview, but it's not my job if I'm being interviewed. So when it's a multi panel interview, you can kind of just sit back. There's multiple people, they, you know, it seems a little more casual, more jovial.

Megan: And And you never really have awkward pauses or silences because someone's always always ready to say something.

Matty: You know what else I love about that is that if they're not doing it, but you still have to have a conversation with these same people, that means you're coming back a third time and a fourth time. And you're having like, why make me have four interviews with four different individuals if you could just put them all in the same room with me?

Megan: Well, or you're going, you're there for four hours because you're going, you're meeting them, you know, each one for an hour.

JJ: And having them reach how you're exactly.

Megan: Yeah.

JJ: Are you pro-panel, uh, Caitlin? Versus like one-on-one interview.

Caitlin: I think panel interviews are probably the most nerve-wracking for most people. So it's interesting to hear that you like them. I don't know. I have mixed feelings. I think some clients handle them really well, and I think some cause a lot of stress for the candidate that maybe they could split it up a little, you know?

Matty: So a good balance. Yeah.

Megan: Yeah. I think people have a perception of, oh my God, it's all these people. They're asking me questions, they're judging. And maybe it also seems more like public. So if you're have a fear of public speaking, you won't enjoy it. But I just the one-on-one in a room just I feel like can be more awkward and then with the multi-panels. That's why I love it. Um, my pull it out keeping in this sort of interview realm is when you sit down and they offer you water or something to drink, and you're like, oh no, I'm good. And they're like, no, just take it. You're gonna need it. I had that happen a few interviews because basically they're asking you those situational, questions, behavioral-based questions where

Megan: it's like your answer is gonna last like 10 minutes. So um that's a pull it out. Oh, really?

JJ: I kind of appreciate that.

Megan: Like, I well no, it's nice that they're offering it, but like I usually in an interview, I don't want to take the water, I don't want to drink, I just don't, I want to be able to want them to watch you how you handle the water. Yeah, and I just I just don't want that extra stress. Like I just want to sit and answer my questions and and have the conversation. But when they like force it on you, which every time they have said you're gonna need it, I did need it and I was happy to have it. But so it's kind of like, okay, huh, this is gonna be a doozy.

Unconfirmed speaker: Yeah.

Caitlin: Yeah. Okay. So I'll go next. Yeah, my slip it in is just like the joy and purpose that I get from my job that I wish for everyone to have that. So for me, it's like I have multiple candidates this week that have signed offer letters where they're going to cut their commutes from an hour and 30 each way to like 15 minutes and be able to spend more time with their family. Um, one of these individuals has very, very small children. So this person will get to pick up their kids from school. And that to me is like everything because I get to share in that joy that I made that happen for someone, or I played a part in that process, and that is the best. Um, and my slip it out, man. I mean, like, like or pull it out. Okay, pull it out.

Caitlin: Yeah. Um, so I think like the whole thing about multiple interviews, like any interview process that lasts past three rounds, or maybe even like a short fourth, it's just people can't make decisions. And that that fires me up a little bit because I feel, yeah, like no one wants their time wasted. People don't want to hang on to hope. And I'd rather just allow someone the freedom to continue their search than to keep them tied up in a process. And yeah, that's my Pull It Out.

JJ: I really love that. I said this before, but you, you, Caitlin, you are really on the business of people. You really I I could tell that you really enjoy being able to do that. You're really invested. And I think that like we need people like you uh so that we could get the confidence and that we can get in front of this individual companies and uh being able to get the roles and jobs that we actually you know work hard for. Like I really, you know, you you're talking right now, and it's like I really feel inspired by having individuals like you and the workforce and being able to put in place us where we really deserve to be.

Caitlin: Thank you. Thank you.

Matty: That kind of dovetails really into my slip it in, which is um, I don't know if I how I can really articulate it accurately, but I love it when good things happen to people or something um changes for them. Even though they didn't actually set out in search of it and try to do anything that's performative, they were just doing good work all along. It's just that at some point somebody took note notice of it. And it's like I've been here all along doing this level of work, and it it speaks to like what happened, I think, to some extent with you. And like, I don't know how you feel about this whole thing that exploded, but you've been doing your job for 16 years, and now you have an experience that is something you that will stay

Matty: with you forever, and you can talk about I don't know, for better or worse.

Caitlin: I don't know, but it's I was taking that as like someone in the job process interview process at first, and then you said about me. That's so nice. Thank you.

Matty: Yeah, I appreciate that. Well, thank you. Um I think we're all um glad our paths cross. So we appreciate you coming on. Um, the my pull it out is adjacent, it's also about water. Oh, it's not about interviews. Caitlin, I keep a list of Slip It In and pull it out. So when they come into our mind, they can they it could be a fleeting thought. So I jot it down. And this has been on my list for a long time. And what better day than today to say I cannot stand it when people walk around with a ginormous jug of water, like it's Like it's in, like, a milk—

Unconfirmed speaker: Stanley cup?

Matty: No, it's like in a milk jug.

Megan: I've seen it in the office.

Matty: I've seen it, it happened. Like, I get it, dude. You like to stay hydrated, but we don't like find something that is not a milk jug or something like, or it's like 132 fluid ounces.

JJ: Like just fill it up when it empties and get some steps to like the water fountain.

Matty: I just I don't know. That to me feels performative.

JJ: At the gym.

Matty: That feels performative. Like you're trying to signal to me that you are the most hydrated individual in the room. Peacocking. They're peacocking. Oh, totally. Very hilarious. They're water peacocks, peacocking.

JJ: Especially when I don't know if you've seen those like that have like little ounce on the side. Oh, I think you made it. You're thirsty.

Caitlin: Congratulations. Yes, 100%. You guys, I have one of those. I actually one because like I told you. No, no, and I don't normally drink it because it really is like a weapon, but um, you know.

Matty: I saw your water, I saw your mug come into frame, which and it was totally suitable. But if you would have had a two-gallon jug of you would have switched that Pull It Out, I bet that's the tipping point. There's a tipping point.

Megan: Yeah, I do, yeah. I think like great, you're getting into like 50 ounces and above, it's it's a Pull It Out.

Matty: Well, and I I will caveat and say if you keep it in your home, it's okay. Yeah, but if you the minute you walk out your door, if you've got something that's congratulating you after every sip, I'm out.

Unconfirmed speaker: Come on. You did it. You I did it today.

Matty: You did it. It's noon, you reached it.

Megan: That's hilarious. this has been so much fun. And thank you so much for all of your thoughtful insights on job interviews and your process as a recruiter. For anyone who wants to reach out to Caitlin, you can find her at Caitlin Recruiter on TikTok and Instagram. You can go to her website, oncuehire.com. You can also find her on LinkedIn at Caitlin Wehniainen. So thank you so much, Caitlin. We've had so much fun with you today. You can always find out everything you want to about us on our Linktree at Slip It In Podcast. You can always reach out to us about everything and anything. Slip into our DMs. We're on Instagram, TikTok, X, and Facebook, all at Slip It In Podcast.

Megan: You can also watch us on YouTube, Slip It In Podcast, email us, Slip It In Podcast at gmail.com, and always give us a call or text 313-444-9004. Thank you. Bye.

Theme: Cringe you beg for more with a guilty pleasure can't ignore like a drunk text sent at 2 a.m. We slipped it in again.